Welcome to Bonsai Help - Don't forget to take a look out our members bonsai trees - View or add yours here >> Latest Post from the Bonsai School The friendly community that shares answers to everything bonsai  Join for FREE!  | FAQ | Check my private messages | Log in  Welcome to BonsaiHelp - Want to talk Bonsai? - Join here for FREE! or read the latest topics! I am new, what is '20% Germination'?        Bonsai Help Forum Index -> Talk Bonsai Author Message carly_pussycat White Belt Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Location: South West Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Hello, I just came across this website in a search engine and thought someone here might be able to help... I recently bought a kit from Waterstones called 'The Mini Bonsai Kit' (as I'm sure many other people have bought on impulse!) which included seeds to grow a Jack Pine (Pinus Banksiana). I followed all the instructions but after a while I realised the seeds weren't going to grow (probably been in the shop too long?! ). So, to cut a long story short I am now having another go growing Japanese White Pine (Pinus Parviflora) from seed. I have soaked it for 24 hours @ room temperature and it's now sitting in moist vermiculite in my fridge for 60 days, but I was just looking for info on the internet about what will happen while it's in the fridge and it said, "After the required time period (or after 20% germination is noticed), remove the seed and sow." Please, someone enlighten me, what is germination and when will I know that it's at the 20% stage? Back to top ThePlantDude White Belt Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 25 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? hey Carly, Ive germinated many seeds after sowing them first and putting them in the fridge ... for a period of time before then putting them in a warmer environment. What usually happens is that some of the seeds start to germinate in the fridge ... but most will germinate after then being introduced to warmer conditions. So what they are probably getting at is .... 20% of all the seeds you have sown germinating before you take them out of the fridge. Not 20 % of the ONE seed. Ive sown Pinus before (different species though) and all i did was store the seeds for about a month in the fridge and then sowed them at a temperature of 15 degrees C ... most germinated in about 2 weeks ... all of them within the month. Hope this helps Cheerio Back to top ThePlantDude White Belt Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 25 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? oooo stick this bit on my last page .... The idea of the fridge is that you are trying to condition the seed to germinate by simulating nature. Naturally what happens is that the seed falls in Autumn and then goes through a cold period of Winter (which you simulate by putting it in the fridge) then it germinates in Spring when the weather is warming up. So putting it in the fridge and then taking it out makes it think that Spring is here and its time to do some growing. Ive also found that the seeds that germinate prematurely in the fridge usually aren't as strong as those that germinate later. OK i think I'm done now Cheerio again Back to top carly_pussycat White Belt Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Location: South West Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Thanks for your advice, it's really helpful as I only got minimal advice with my pack of White Pine seeds. Although I have one more question (for the moment!)... If I leave my 3 seeds in the bag with the moist vermiculite how will I know that they have started germinating? Is germinating another word for sprouting? Back to top Stymie Black Belt Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 10911 Location: S.Yorks.UK where the sun used to shine Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Carly- Yes. Germination is the process of springing into life. Dude. You can alter, add to or delete part of your post after posting by clicking on 'Edit' top right hand corner. Back to top carly_pussycat White Belt Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 4 Location: South West Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Thanks! Right, now I just have to be patient. 60 days to go! Back to top Dick Black Belt Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 9640 Location: Western New York State, USA - Zone 4b Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? It seems like you might be better off to place the entire seed planting outdoors in late fall and let the the cold of winter do what your refrigerator will do.Then in the spring, you'll have a better chance of sprouting the pine seeds. This just isn't the right time of the year for that. Back to top ThePlantDude White Belt Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 25 Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Stymie .... cool OK thanks dude Carol ... just to reiterate (I'm going to have to stop using big words ... doesn't go with image I'm trying to portray) what Dick said about timing ... its very important to get the timing of germinating seeds right ... not just for getting germination to occur ... but also because the plant once germinated needs to at the right level of development once the season comes to an end. So i would just leave the seeds in the fridge and then sow them in Spring once the temp outside reaches 15 degrees C (or earlier if you have a heated propagator). Back to top LGTilley Yellow Belt Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 89 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? carly_pussycat wrote: Thanks for your advice, it's really helpful as I only got minimal advice with my pack of White Pine seeds. Although I have one more question (for the moment!)... If I leave my 3 seeds in the bag with the moist vermiculite how will I know that they have started germinating? Is germinating another word for sprouting? THREE seeds? Yes, a seed has germinated when it has sprouted, and you see the seed leaves emerging from the compost. 20% germination in this context means when a fifth of the number of seeds you planted have sprouted - so with just 3 seeds, you have a mathematical dilemma on your hands I suspect you've bought one of those little "Grow your own bonsai" kits. Giving you 3 seeds is extremely mean unless you paid about £1 for the kit. In nature, some seeds never germinate, so with just 3 chances, you may be going to all this effort for nothing. Try a seed supplier such as Chiltern Seeds http://www.edirectory.co.uk/chilternseeds/pages/index.asp?cid=211 You can buy various species of pine from them, about £2.50 for a packet of 10 seeds. With 10 or more seeds, you can be experimental if you want - plant a few in a pot, put some in the fridge for a few weeks, save a few to plant in a pot in a polythene bag to leave outside through winter etc. Back to top Tuppence2 Brown Belt Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Posts: 2052 Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England (Weather Zone 8) Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: I am new, what is '20% Germination'? Hello Just to encourage you. I bought a packet of mixed pine seeds on eBay UK and ended up with around 26 little seedlings. Good luck with yours. (Another way of looking at 20 per cent, is 20 in a 100.)