germination??

glened · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: germination??

I thought i would have ago at growing from seed, so i decided to buy some Japanese pine seeds, red, white and black. Now on the pack it says for that the white pine requires a 90 day stratification , the black pine 60 days , and the red 30 days. Fair enough i thought, then reading on bonsai4me that 4 weeks should do, though it wasn't species specific. Should i go with the packet instruction's ,what bonsai4me or does anyone have anything different to add?

thanks Glen Smile

Stymie · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: germination??

There cannot be a rule of thumb time scale in my opinion. One purpose of the stratification is to ensure that the seed coat is breached and this is sometimes done manually by growers. Four weeks might be enough but nature does it for a whole winter. On these pages you will find information that people have sown their seeds and then put the pot outside in October to let nature do what was intended. I theorize that the moisture inside a seed expands when frozen in the wild thereby splitting the case. I don't know all the science behind it. Someone will come in with more explicit information.

imholte · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: germination??

I would go with what the packet says, for they should know their product more than others.

You can increase germination in pines by scarifying the surface of the seed to help the seed open, but I find it best to let mother nature do it for me. Like Don said I sow mine in the fall and leave them out to the forces of nature all winter long....they are starting to sprout now.

RossDas · White Belt Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 24

I recently bought a packet of about 100 mixed pine seeds.
I split them into different seed trays and tried different methods of propagation using my fridge, an electric propagator, and some damp tissue paper.
In the end I now have two seedlings. One came from the damp tissue paper kept in a dark cupboard, and one from soil kept in the fridge for a month.
I've heard that seed "kits" can be dodgy but I'm not sure if that refers to the box sets as opposed to seed packets. Mine came from Howdens.

Incidentally some people start stratifying at the bottom of the fridge where it's coldest and move them towards the top as the weeks go on.

Good luck!

imholte · Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: germination??

Some pines can take up to 4 months of cold stratification to become viable for germination. Some need the heat of summer and then the cold of winter to break. So I imagine your poor success was due to not properly stratifying them.

Barwick Bonsai · Yellow Belt Joined: 25 May 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Leeds

Right - here's the official line on pine seeds and stratification -
White pine are DD (deeply dormant) and need 36 weeks stratification for them to germinate - you will get about a 40 - 50 % success rate - so the more you sow the more you grow!
Black pine are PC (pre chill needed) and need 4 weeks stratification as are the red Pine.
You need to soak the seed in water for 48 hours and discard all floaters - mix the seeds with damp Sharp sand and give two weeks at 18C then the rest in the fridge. before sowing in spring time. If you stratify now your seeds will be late and you will have to watch for frost later on in the season.
Ideal way to sow is to plant in autumn and let mother nature do her bit.
hope this helps
Andy

glened · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Re: germination??

I think I'm going to go with the sowing outside in Autumn. Thanks for you help so far. Cool

Cheers Glen